Pod Cast Guest Susan Newhouse
[ Introduction ]
Welcome to the Strategic Play Podcast. Unlock Your creativity, expand your mind, and have good clean fun with Strategic Play founder and LEGO® Serious Play® Master Trainer, Jacquie Lloyd Smith, and creative force and curious mind, Mark Millhone.
Mark:
Hello, Jacquie.
Jacquie:
Hello, Mark. How are you today?
Mark:
I am very excited to talk with you and to have a conversation with our guest. Susan Newhouse brings great insight to this question of how is it that we really engage that storytelling muscle to help create the future of any project or organization.
Jacquie:
Susan Newhouse is a master. I've known her for quite a few years, and I am impressed every single time she does something because she brings such amazing energy, which you're about to hear in a moment. She always has some kind of a new and interesting tool, many of them she's created herself. But it's always wonderful to see what she does with tools like LEGO® Serious Play® and how she applies that tool in different places to bring teams together. So I think she's going to share some insights with us, and maybe tell us a story or two from the work that she's been doing. So let's dig into it.
Mark:
Yes. A little more background on Susan, if you're not familiar with her work. A dynamic facilitator who harnesses the power of human connection, Susan applies principles of creative problem solving, design thinking, multiple intelligences theory, and improvisation to disrupt ordinary thinking and create breakthroughs for individuals, teams, and organizations. For the past 20 years, she has led hundreds of cutting-edge innovation sessions for Fortune 500 companies and designed facilitation training programs, which she has delivered around the globe.
Susan received her degree in communications from the University of Illinois, studied improv at Josephine Forsberg's Players' Workshop of The Second City, and has received certifications in Strategic Storytelling with LEGO® Serious Play® methods and FourSight Creative Thinking System. She has also taught at several international creativity conferences, including the Creative Problem Solving Institute, QRCA, Florida Creativity Conference and ACRE/EDU in South Africa. She lives in Chicago with her husband, Rob, and son, Roman.
So let’s dive into our interview.
[ Interview ]
Mark:
Susan Newhouse, welcome to the Strategic Play Podcast. It's a great pleasure to be speaking with you and share insights on storytelling, brand making, LEGO® SERIOUS PLAY®, and all manner of greatness that you regularly rock on a daily basis. Thanks for being here.
Susan:
Yes. Thank you, guys, for having me. I'm excited to see what unfolds.
Mark:
And you will. What was the prompt that we gave, Susan, Jacquie?
Jacquie:
So her challenge was to build a model that tells us how you use storytelling to enhance team communication. Is that what you got Susan?
Susan:
That is what I've got. And that is what I built. And I’m looking at it right now. It's right in front of me.
Mark:
Tell us just the key features. Paint a picture for our listeners.
Susan:
When I read the prompt and I was starting to really think about it, I started thinking about when you're doing storytelling and how you bring people together. And so my model is actually not a very small, compact model. It's actually spread out, right. And if you think about it, I'm kind of, I guess at the front of this kind of looking at the people who are there. But everyone is kind of on their own little island, if you will. They kind of have their own little hub and they're kind of spread out a little bit. And there are some connectors that are kind of starting to bring those together. And I guess you could say, in a way, I'm summoning them to come to this singular place.
Mark:
Very cool. All right, Jacquie. You are the LEGO whisperer. Help us piece out the insights of what Susan's created.
Jacquie:
Okay. Absolutely. So, Susan. First, I'm going to ask you, when I look at your model, where are you in the model? Where are—where did you put yourself?
Susan:
So I am not right next to the other people in the little islands. I'm facing everyone, though, right? So I'm looking at them and I'm kind of scanning out and I'm up on a little bit of a platform, and I'll explain why that is. But I'm also standing with what seems to be a little bit of a magic wand in one hand and a megaphone in another. I'm also standing next to a door that's halfway open. And I've got a little cat there, because a lot of these sessions are about herding cats. So I had to put that cat on there to remind me of—and also, it's like this summoning people toward this door.
Jacquie:
Okay. And you have something in your hand. What's in your hand?
Susan:
I have a golden magic wand. And you know, it's really interesting when you think about these kinds of sessions. A lot of people are like, “Oh, it's all magic. It's behind the curtain,” and it's not magic. However, you do need to have a few tricks up your sleeve in order to bring things out of people and to make an experience happen. So it could be a conductor's wand, but I'm calling it a magical wand.
And then that megaphone is really about—and I think about that storytelling and the branding, right? It's getting a voice. You can't use a megaphone without a voice. And so how I communicate with the people in my session and how I then want them to communicate and start telling a story, whether it's a story about themselves, their role, their team, their brand, whatever that is. You've got to have it or no one's going to hear it. And no one's going to know where you're coming from.
Jacquie:
Right. It isn't magic, but yet it might feel like magic to participants. And I think that's just perfect. So when I look at your model, I can see that there is one person that's got all these little dots in front of them, looking like little buttons.
Susan:
So I'll talk about it in the context of all these people coming to the session on their own island. And I kind of created them as personas of individuals that you might experience on a team, or you might experience in a collaborative workshop. And this guy with all these little buttons, you'll see they're lined up very beautifully. They're all the same size. They're very neat. They might be a little color coded, light to dark, because this is the type of person who comes in and is very linear, very literal. And so when it comes to how they go about business or how they engage, it has to make sense. And it's a very logical thing. Well, what I'm also have in front of that person, it looks like it could be banging a drum. It's just one little thing right in front of them, because sometimes individuals have a hard time seeing the big picture. They can only kind of see what's right in front of them. And so it's very important for me to start to understand very early on who these people are, how they create, how they engage.
And so I'd say this is that kind of linear literal person who may be only seeing parts of the big picture or parts of the story.
Jacquie:
Okay. So next to that, and I do see a connector or something from his head over to you. So if you…
Susan:
That is correct.
Jacquie:
Ah ha. What is it? What is the significance of that kind of rope piece there?
Susan:
I love how these little, LEGO has the—you just can basically tap into the brains of all these people. So and it's funny. I've been not only facilitating with LEGO for a long time, but man have I had a lot of LEGO in my household, from the time my kid was like six or whatever.
So I've had it in my house, but I always—in these kits you get these strings and they're wrapped up with tape and you're like, what the heck is that? And then you use them and they still are there with all taped up. And I just started unraveling them and I'm like, you know what? That is like the electrode, right? That thing that jumps into the brain from each person and is coming to this central place of creating a shared story. So this person is definitely now getting tapped into the larger picture.
Jacquie:
Okay. I love it. I love it. And I just have to say that isn't it interesting when you open up a box of LEGO that every single thing in the box, when you're a parent, you might think, ah, that sticker that's garbage and not play with it. But then when you start using it like this, you realize every single thing is a piece of magic.
Susan:
It has whatever meaning you want it to. And what's really interesting too, Jacquie, is those little things that were all taped up? I have had those in LEGO kits in facilitated sessions, and not one person ever opened it up. And then I go, are they afraid to? Are they like, “Oh, I don't want to touch that because it's still kind of packaged.”
Jacquie:
In the packaging.
Susan:
So take off that tape and open it up. And when I started playing with that, I'm like, yes, that's the connector. I needed a connector and it's pliable. And I love it. It just taps right into each person's brain.
Jacquie:
When we start playing with this stuff, we can see meaning everywhere. Okay. So I'm going to skip over in your model. And the next one, this guy looks, I don't know, kind of science fiction-y to me. So this is the one that's got the kind of claws over his head. And I don't know what's going on there, but there’s like tubes. And there’s like those black connectors that are hard to use. So good for you for getting that together. So tell us about him. What's the story with that person ?
Susan:
Well, this is kind of the dreamer, right? That everyone's like, “Dude, you're so way out there. Like, what planet are you on?” And it's the person who comes in and they've got these ideas and they seem really far-fetched. And so they're immediately rejected because people can't wrap their heads around them.
So they're kind of treated like an alien on the team. They're the outlier. They're the weird person. That's why there's like these little weird green things coming out of his head. That's why he's got that little dragon next to him, right. That guy’s always in fantasy land. And then there’s kind of like science fiction things, but you see the green thing in the front. That, to me, it looks like it could actually, like, who needs an electro beam? I've got a laser beam that's just going to like beam out these ideas. So for some people it can look scary, right? That kind of out there thinking. But this really is the dreamer who is pushing people where they don't know they need to be. They don’t know it yet, but they need to be there and this person can kind of see into the future.
Jacquie:
All right. Okay. This is a lot of fun. Okay. Let's go to the next person. I see that this person's up on a bit of a pedestal and they'd got something next to them that's like red, and then like a flat—the flat beige piece and kind of going up. And it looks like a piece of an airplane wing.
Susan:
Yes. So it's really interesting. So the pedestal is definitely—that's exactly what I was thinking. So what's interesting about this is this person is up on a pedestal, and it could be a couple of things. Is this the person who's put themselves on a pedestal, right? Or are they seen as a team leader? Or are they the actual leader? I don't know, you get that. You get all kinds. But this person is a little higher up. But what's also interesting is this little thing that you're talking about, that stack, right? The red, the beige, the red, the beige. That's multiplied of that really literal person we talked about first. That guy only had one in front of him. This person has it stacked. So this person is making things happen, right? So you're seeing progress. You're seeing things come to be. Maybe it's the finished progress and that little wing on the plane is that—it's kind of taking flight, right?
That's the successful part of maybe the product or the offer that's now being talked about. But this person who's up on this pedestal really has played a key role in helping to make that happen. And that can be a good thing or a bad thing, right? So maybe they were the ones who had the wherewithal, or they were this phenomenal leader who led the team to that, did all the hard work, worked on that. It's hard to know that, and sometimes that's a blessing and a curse, right? Because if that person is up on a pedestal, a lot of times other people are scared to speak their own mind until they hear what this higher up has to say. There are really great things and potentially cautions or red flags that you really need to think about when it comes to this person.
Jacquie:
Right. Right. So handle with care.
Susan:
Yes
Jacquie:
Okay. Now and then to say that the dreamer and also the person on the pedestal, they both have those connectors from their heads, leading to the model that you're on. So that you are illustrating through those ropes or connections that you have a direct line into their brain, which I like. Okay. So the last person that seems to be on this little landscape, is somebody that is peeking over a wall.
Susan:
Oh, yes. It's a pretty high wall, isn't it? Actually, if you could see on the other side of it, you’d see they're actually like on a little bench. They're all like on a little step stool to peek over that wall and it's kind of interesting. When you facilitate workshops, again, like one of the first things—I mean, I try to do this before I walk in the room. But honestly, in the first thing as simple as people walking in and getting set up or grabbing their coffee or finding their spot, or maybe it's in the warmup thing. My first thing is: Who are the assisters? Who are the resistors? Who's on board? Who needs help?
And a lot of times you have people who have a wall that you kind of need to break down to get that buy-in, to just even have a conversation. So there's this guarded feeling that sometimes people are coming in and did they build that wall up themselves or has being a part of the organization or a team resulted in that, right? So it could be a self-imposed wall, but there is a wall and there—not everybody's excited to be there. Not everybody's like all gung-ho and ready to collaborate. So you've got to keep that in mind as well.
Jacquie:
Okay. So I'll just do the quick recap for anyone. Of course, we have Susan who has got the open door. She has got the golden wand, and she is the one that is connecting with these connectors to these little islands that represent people. And we have the literal people. They're the ones with the buttons in front of them, but maybe only see the drum. We have the dreamer with the far out person that's maybe got some crazy ideas that maybe the team isn't listening to you or hasn't harnessed those ideas. And then we have the person on a pedestal, who could be the team leader or it could be that self-elevated leader. But either way, they're there. And then we have the wall person, who has got a big wall in front of them. And so Susan, you were saying that as soon as you walk in a room, you take a quick look around. It's hard to tell who's who at first, though.
Susan:
It is. And you certainly don't want to make assumptions, right? I mean, you also have to take into consideration: Is this person an introvert or is this person just not awake yet and they need their coffee and they're going to be all—synapses are going to be firing soon.
I don't know, but I really have to kind of take that and start some of those low-level conversation starters or things like that, just to kind of understand where people are and how willing are people to jump forward. Who do I need to draw words out of and who might I need to maybe, I don't want to say shut them up, but who—like manage, right? Like be really careful so that they're not taking up all the space.
Jacquie:
Who's going to play with you?
Susan:
Yes. And then watching how they interact with each other is really important. And as we were just kind of going through this, I could even tell you right now, my model’s not finished. The model’s always unfinished. If I had more of those little ropes, the ideal outcome, right, was that those ropes would not just be connected to the single thing but also to each other, right, so having connections. But how do you get all of these people who are coming in with very different perspectives, areas of expertise, levels of experience, expectations about what this initiative or project or workshop is about, but how do you get all of them not just telling a story, but starting to tell a shared story. And that is why, as you know, LEGO is such a brilliant piece for that, right? And that's where, if I look at the connectors and why I built that, why I opened the door, I wasn't necessarily opening the door for them. I'm already there in the room for them.
That door is open so that when they leave that workshop, they have a shared vision, a shared story that they are now going to grab that megaphone and go out the door and tell the same story.
Jacquie:
Right.
Susan:
And so that's why then you'll see, when you see closer up the door is actually facing out that way. So when they're walking out that door swings open.
Jacquie:
And I guess that is, when you think about facilitating, that's really the key. It's like helping people tell their story, share information so that we have a shared understanding. And then at some point we get some kind of alignment, whether it's strategy, branding, a project, a problem that we're solving. It doesn't—so you're the queen of all of this. I have been an admirer of yours for many years. I have always watched you in awe because I think you're a natural. And you do have a great big huge tool kit ready to go, and you are ready to pull things out at a moment's notice.
So I thought, maybe wouldn't it be fun if you told us about some of the big hits, the things that have gone really well? And I know that you did something in Shanghai with for Ferrero, and then Kraft and Heinz in Chicago were some of your clients. So pick a story and maybe tell us something fun.
Susan:
Well, yes. The Ferrero chocolate one was fantastic. That was just a couple of years ago, actually, not long before lockdown. So I was introduced—I was actually over in Shanghai doing just regular facilitation training. I always call it the art of facilitation, right? 101, what are some basics? What are some basic things in your tool kit? And I was introduced to a client there, and they said, “You really need to come in and talk with some of the folks in our HR department, because I think we have some needs.” And we went and made a separate meeting, and as we had that conversation, she was telling me about every year they have their annual strategy kickoff meeting, right?
So across the Asia Pacific region, about 100 to 150 people are going to come together. They're going to hear firsthand this strategy and vision. And then try to understand: How are you going to move the strategy forward? And we really went back and forth on the type of idea and the type of theme. And I knew they had a theme to work with. Some people think they're corny or hokey or whatever. And I say boo to that. I say balls to that. What I say is themes make things sticky because people get it. You're not going to make a theme that doesn't make sense.
And in this case, it made a lot of sense because it was really about pushing forward, like propulsion. So we used like a space metaphor and a space analogy. So what was really cool is when we did the LEGO session, we brought all these folks together and they were sitting at pretty large tables, maybe teams of eight. What was really cool is we used LEGO and the function to say, “You heard the strategy all day yesterday. Now how, as teams, are you going to pull this together?” And we had everybody talk about their role, and they built a rocket together. And each table had a rocket and we had this huge, massive—they did something amazing. My partners over there, they did this amazing thing. They basically created like a, oh gosh, what did they call it? Like a space—like landing out in the middle, like where you go out to the shuttle and everything's going to go fast. So everybody had to then launch their rockets to go out and land there together, and they were going to blast off into the future.
So this was really cool. We build a rocket. We do whatever that looks like, what the model looks like, and we did that through stages. But what was really powerful is that first of all, a lot of people will tell you if you're working in—and I do not want to stereotype because I kind of say again, balls to the stereotype, but they say when you're working with certain cultures, especially maybe Asian cultures, they're a lot more introverted. You've got to be really careful about saving face and all this kind of stuff. And I'm like, “No, we're using this as a tool for everybody to talk.” And they're like, “Well, just know there are a lot of senior people here and people are not going to want to talk.” And I said, “I really believe it's going to work. I believe it's going to happen.” And what was amazing, it was exactly what I've thought because this has happened every single time somebody told me that, is that if you craft something in the right way and you use the right tool, it will work. And so there were very senior people assigned to each table. We gave them very strict—we had a meeting with them the night before: Your job is to be the scribe. Your job is to be the timekeeper. Your job is to be this and everyone will have to share. And so you could see a lot of more junior people may be a little hesitant, but the way we orchestrated it and when people kind of just build that first—just build a model, build something. Now put yourself in it. Now talk about your role. And what you saw were people who maybe were scared to talk to these very senior people, you saw their eyes light up because there's a lot of pride in the work that they're doing and the role that they're playing. So you really saw that and that kind of breaks down that first preconceived notion or that first wall, right.
And then the leaders are like, “I actually didn't know that about you or I didn't know you were on that initiative.” And so now their eyes light up. They had to do big presentations in front of everybody and cheer. And we ran around the room with microphones and cameras that were projected on the screen. Then the big, final challenge was they had to carry like their huge platform and their rocket ship to get it on the launcher. And the room was so loud, of people so excited and like clamoring to get that microphone to share their model and how they were going to bring the strategy to life. It was really so exciting. And then by the time we did the countdown, everybody did the 10, 9, 8, jumping up and down, and it was really a great experience. And then on—you get on the other side and say, “Why didn't we just start this from the beginning? Why do we ever think of another tool?” This was the tool. It was really perfect.
Jacquie:
Excellent. That's a great story. I think that, and I'd like to hear what Mark thinks of that, but my thought, when I hear you tell it, is just how much people connect when they are making something. And the ability to build something or make something, and then use that to tell your story makes it so much easier to talk about yourself and your accomplishments when you have this three-dimensional object in front of you that you have created, in order to be able to do it. And I think that there is, listening to that story, which has—it was a great story. It’s sort of like, I think that along with your amazing facilitation skills, which I have to say Susan, you just light a room up when you walk into it. And everyone knows it. If I didn't say that people would be like, “Why didn't Jacquie mention the Susan Newhouse effect?” Because there is a Susan Newhouse effect, which also makes doing these activities contagious.
But I think that the story there is that to do something that big on that kind of a scale that is so important to those people. You have to become evangelical about it as a facilitator. Like you’ve got to believe this is going to be great and it's going to work. And then it sounds to me like you created an environment with the microphones and the camera, which never underestimate the power of a microphone or the power of a camera, because as soon as you bring that element and people know that it's being documented and it's real then it ups the game. So I think those conditions, along with your amazing facilitation skills, I think that LEGO is definitely this amazing tool. Everybody knows that I can be evangelical about LEGO. But I think that combination is what made that incredible event.
Susan:
Well, yes. And thank you for saying that, Jacquie. And I do think that kind of goes back to using a theme and creating an experience. And I am certainly not the only one who helped make that happen. I had an amazing, amazing team and push back and we kind of went through—we actually started building our own models to like think about how we wanted to do it, right.
But the other thing that brought that to life, and exactly what you're saying, this kind of evangelical almost larger than life way. I mean, they had me up on a really big stage. I don't like— miking me up is a really dangerous thing. So you want to be sure that I'm on a stage, and a 5, 6, 7, 8, you know?But what was actually really funny is every time they had to do a build, I'm up there and I'm talking, and that is great. And I'm really happy to hear that. And I think, because I had a headset on, right, and I pretended that I was getting a message and I said, “Oh my gosh. I just got another message from mission control.”
And they shared a video and I actually found a NASA wind breaker. Right. So it's a red, white and blue it's white. It's got the hood. And I had like a projected image of mission control behind me. And I was like, “All right. Are you guys up for this next challenge?” And so what was funny is that mission control me was giving him a message, but the real me was standing on stage and I'm like, wow, that person really looks familiar. And then they all started laughing, but you have to kind of bring in—when you're doing an event like that, bringing in again, a theatrical element, but really what it comes down to is a playful element. And it's giving people permission to play. And again, for corporate America or corporate wherever, sometimes play is still a four-letter word. It is a bad thing. It is a waste of time. And again, I will always push back on that. It is necessary. It is required. And that's what gives people that sense of freedom to actually go there. And it's important so that I am evangelical about that in many ways.
Jacquie:
Well, I love the theatrical component. I mean, I think some people can pull it off and some people can't. And so one of the things that I would say, if you're listening to this and you are a facilitator, the big thing about making that successful is to be authentic yourself. So if your authentic self, and I know you Susan Newhouse, and I can just see you on a big stage all miked up, because you're like you were made for that. You're made for Hollywood. You're made for Hollywood facilitation, and that's kind of what that sounded like. And other people, their facilitation style is a lot—it is different. But I think if we are as facilitators, if we are authentic and real, because people can tell if you're not, and if you're trying to do something that you're not 100% behind, I think people can sniff that out pretty quick.
Mark:
I love this metaphor for the way the storytelling works within an organization, because everyone is on their own island and everyone has the things on their own island that they care about and are important. And it's really challenging to step into that. It's a real dance, because everyone has to feel like their story is part of the larger story. If it's a story that's just handed down, then they'll just repeat the lines in the story. But the way that you've really mapped this out in terms of showing how that energy can go back and forth and be transformative and a catalyst for that kind of transformative change. I mean, it is inspiring. It does make me want to evangelize a little bit.
And one sort of side thought was, Jacquie, this is going to be a challenge. I think for you for a future podcast is I'd love for you to build maps of these different place analogy types and how they interact together. Because I feel like there's something really interesting here to look at the types of players that step into this space and just what those archetypes are like and how they can dance together in really fascinating ways. I thought that was a really fun insight that you brought forward there.
Jacquie:
Yes. That is—so this is one of the things that we've been working on for the last couple of years is looking at people's playsonalities. And we've created this assessment that goes with it, and we've identified eight. Now within those eight, people are kind of a blend of different things, but there are these distinct eight. And listening to Susan and the facilitation style that she uses, I would say that Susan is probably a bit of an alchemist and also a humorist. She's like kind of like walking that line over there that pushes the boundaries, pushes the rules. And I think that, that's part of this whole idea behind facilitating and showing up and being our authentic selves and letting other people be their authentic selves, as well.
So going back to the beginning of the conversation, Susan talked about that there are different types in the room when she walks in, and—somebody’s dog just may have died. Like somebody may have not had that coffee. We don't know. And we can't presume to know, and we always have to go to where they are. So we have to start with them, not with us. I mean, at the same time, we have to walk in feeling confident and positive and ready and that we have the ability to go with them to where they are in order to be able to move them forward to where we want to get them to be at the end of the day, for whatever goals or outcomes whoever has hired us has sort of said, this is what I would like out of this meeting.
So thinking about, in many ways it is a magic trick and we do need magic wands, because there's so many variables when we walk into the room and we try to pull that all together. But Susan Newhouse, so you do that better than anybody I know. And I’m not just saying that because you're on our podcast. It is—anyone that knows Susan Newhouse knows that this is true. So now I'm going to ask you, do we have time Mark for me to ask for a disaster story that she might be willing to tell us of one that didn't work, Susan? Is there anything like, or can you give us maybe a: This is the lesson I learned early on and I never ever do this. Is there anything like that?
Susan:
In general, not necessarily with LEGO. But I mean, yes, absolutely. I mean, I've done this for—I was thinking about this. I look in the mirror and I go really, shouldn't I be like 28 still? The mirror tells me no. And actually I realize I've been doing this for 20 years. So I know I sure didn't start at eight.
So there were a couple of things. And so one off I'll touch on really quickly. And it has to do a little bit with like what you were talking about, where it was kind of like know the room, right. And so I'm like super, super prepared all the time. I have very detailed exercises, everything, but I also know I need that. I need to have that internalized, because when I walk in that room, I need to be able to let go of that plan and be present to whatever happens. And what happened is we did—we were doing a big product ideation, huge thing for like a cleaning company several years ago. And the company said, “Hey, a lot of our R&D folks can't make it. Can you make a special trip and do an internal ideation with them prior to the one with the creative consumers?” We said, “Yes, sure.” So we go in with our super high energy and all that. And they're all highly introverted. And after the first—they were like trying to ideate during the first session and my facilitator and I looked at each other and we're like, “Oh no. We’ve got to literally rewrite every single activity to be less extraverted and a lot more introverted and slow down and take our time.”
So that was one thing we really learned. And so I do think about that when I go into every activity. The other one I will say was something that really had nothing to do with me, but it had everything to do with the company. And I used to do ideation pipeline innovation for a snack company every year. And a lot of the same team members would come or like different rotating members are coming in and out. This is a big group. This is probably 25 clients or so, we had about 10 to 15 creative consumers, so a really big room for two days. And lunchtime on day one of the ideation, everybody's having lunch and we're getting ready to pop back in, right? We're getting ready to pop back in. And I don't know, you can't see this on a podcast, but one thing, if you do know Susan Newhouse, she wears lipstick, right? So I'm going to go to the lady’s room. I got to go freshen up my lipstick and I'm going to be ready to go, come back, do that afternoon energizer.
And as I'm coming back in the room, like three of the leaders are standing outside the door before I can come back into the room and they're all looking at me. And they said, well, basically my lead client and half of the team just had to drive back to corporate because their job was just eliminated. And so they're like, “No, do carry on.” And I was like, “What?” And I'm sitting here trying to do all these activities where half the other people are like looking at each other and like still trying to carry on. We did one activity and I pulled the other person aside and I said, “I really think people need to go home. I think they need their space. I think they need to figure out what's going on.” And he said, “Well, we'll be back tomorrow, but people are going to be rotating in and out because they're having conversations with their various bosses.” And I really discouraged against it and they said, “No, we've paid for it. So it's going to happen.”
And then when they came back in, I just said, “Here’s what we're going to do. We're going to scrap this. We're going to figure out what's most important to be done today. And again, you guys need self-care. You need to take care of this. I'll do what I can on the backend. Maybe we reschedule it.” But it's really—sometimes some really big things happen that are really beyond our control.
And you really have to take a look. Like I don't care what the end state is. I really don't care. What I really care about are the people in the room because it—everything, it is affecting them. And maybe they just need time together and they don't need me barking orders or asking them, “Bring—give me three more ideas.” They don't need that. So that's another thing I think that was kind of things that have happened that you just really have to be flexible and adapt for.
Jacquie:
And it can be—that can be really tough because the person that hires you has got, and maybe they don't understand. And they're like, “Well, we approved the budget, so we want you to do this, that, and the other thing.” But I always think people first. People before process, people before tools, people before anything. And so nobody really knows the agenda but the facilitator. This is what I always think, anyway. And if I have something planned that I can see it's going to be completely not going to fit, I can change the agenda on a dime and do small group discussions or a walk and talk. Find one person, I'm going to send you guys out for half an hour to just walk and talk, and do something that allows them a chance to have like that space and reflect. It is—it can be tough, because especially for new facilitators that don't feel comfortable in their own skin and don't want to take ahold of the agenda or let's say they've written the agenda. And then they feel like I got to stick to the plan because this is the agenda that I had planned, and this is what I'm going to do. And that's what I told them I would do. And I think switching the agenda and being able to read the room comes with mastery.
And you may look in the mirror and see some gray hair or wrinkles or whatever you see, Susan. That’s what I see, anyway. I'll just speak for myself. I see gray hair and I see wrinkles, even though my hair is blonde, I can see them. But I think that you earn that. And that comes with an enormous amount of time in the trenches doing this kind of work and at every single event that you do, if you can do a post-mortem and a retrospective and talk it out with someone you trust and say, like, what really went well? What could we have done better? That is how you build your skill set and you learn. Because let's face it, LEGO, Post-it Notes, markers: Those are tools. Life is life. And It's your personality that’s like on the line when you’re facilitating.
Susan:
It's very, very true. And I think the only other thing I would add to that is I, for years, we always put a big stick in the ground. We do not share that session plan with anybody. We get alignment on what needs to be done. We get alignment on a couple of other things. What I'm finding more and more is the demand like, “I want to see the agenda and what's the exercises and how are you laying it out?” And then what happens, and I push back, and what happens is they're like, “Well, when are we going to get to that?” First of all, you're not ready for that because we just got in and had that conversation, and you guys are way light years behind where you think you are. And if you're going to gloss over that and jump to that other stuff, then you really run the risk of this being a waste of time. And so I really don't like to do that. And I agree with you. It should really be once you're aligned on the objectives and, once you're aligned on the guardrail, it's really the expertise of the facilitator to pull and design that. And the onus is on you to deliver that. But I don't like everything down to the letter being shared because then people are going to walk away with that and it just doesn't play out that way.
Jacquie:
I 100% agree. A lot of people will say to me, “Once you do the agenda, then what—how do you not tell them what you're doing, like in every 15 minutes?” And I say from 9:00 a.m. until 10:15 a.m., we're going to do 21st century skills renovation.
Susan:
Yes.
Jacquie:
And people go, “Well what is that?” And then I'm like, “Well that's what the session is. So wait and see.” Because the thing is, as soon as they think—and this is the other thing that I say to them, and if you're listening to this podcast and you are a facilitator that has been in a position where somebody wants you to act out? I had a facilitator once tell me they wanted her to act out the activities so they could decide whether they were going to be okay or not, which is like impossible. If you're working with those kinds of people, what I say to them is, “Look, we are the masters of design. We scaffold the activities in order to take you to the end of the day. That's what you're paying us for. Now if you want to design the facility—if you want to design the event, then you could actually do it yourself. You don't really need me.” And most people will say, “Okay. Well that's true. We do need you and we're going to get out of your way.” Because having them control the agenda, we all know, isn’t—the benefit that we have, which in-house teams don't have, is that the ability to go from place to place, to company to company, and to have the experience of knowing what works in different situations. And that is something that you can't explain to somebody who has always worked at the post office. That's where they worked. We work—because that's the culture they live in and that's the one they understand. So yes, I think that we’re getting into some really juicy topics, and I don't know how much time we have, Mark. But that could be, Susan, a whole other podcast, right?
Susan:
I know. Yes, I know. Absolutely. And it's interesting, I mean, it comes with that experience and you see the good, the bad, and the ugly, right? You see and you experience all of that, but it really helps you become a better facilitator because you're able to anticipate the kind of maybe pushback and, and dare I say, fear that a lot of clients have, right?
And they're putting their reputation on the line by bringing you in. But as a facilitator, you're putting your reputation on the line for designing it. And so it is also about building trust along the way to make sure that you're doing what you're being paid to do and that what you're brought in to do. So yes. That is a whole other issue.
Jacquie:
And I think that most clients don't necessarily know exactly what they want, and that’s where value lives. So that is the value that we take. Sorry, Mark. Mark is going to tell us—he's going to get the big hook here. Mark?
Mark:
The big hook here is the importance of experiential learning. The importance of really diving into the present moment, because that's the only place that anything ever, ever happens. This insistence that people and, not just by the bullet points, but actually show up and experience the experience. And I think that we'll close with another learning experience, which is that of a little bit of sadness because now this conversation has to come to an end. I don't know if I nailed that landing as well as some other ones.
Jacquie:
No. I think that's good. I think the point is that we could talk forever, and Susan Newhouse is a powerhouse of facilitation tips and experiences and insights that is untapped by junior facilitators or even senior facilitators that have been around for a while. I think that all of us can benefit from these conversations so that we can kind of think about all of that.
Mark:
Well thank you so much for sharing some of the magic. I'm not going to do this justice, but it was a suggestion from Stephen Walling. He said, “So when Susan's on, to really pay her respect, you need to like have some theme music that would be for her. And what he recommended was, “Susan New-house.” [ Singing to the tune of Brick House ]
Susan:
Yes, I'm already feeling, I'm already moving. I know exactly what that was. Every time I see Stephen Walling, he sings that to me and I kind of get a little groove going on. I I'm going to have to make my husband and my son sing it to me when I walk in every morning.
Jacquie:
You—absolutely. As soon as—that’s right. I was going to say, as soon as you walk in the door. And that actually came from Sarah Moyle, another mutual friend, who, as soon as she heard your name, she was like doing the song. All right, Susan Newhouse. Thank you so much for giving us the gift of your time. Always, always, always so much fun to hang out with you and to have any kind of conversation about almost anything.
Susan:
Great. Thank you, Jacquie. Thank you, Mark. Thank you so much for inviting me. It’s always lovely to talk with you. Let's do it again soon.
Mark:
Yes, please.
[ Conclusion ]
Jacquie:
Well, I thought that was a lot of fun. Susan Newhouse is a lot of fun, and I'm not kidding when I say that I admire her and her work. Yes. She's just—she is a powerhouse. It is true. And I think that, that conversation was really nice and spontaneous and had so many great takeaways. So Mark, maybe I'll ask you: What was the big takeaway for you?
Mark:
The aspect of filming people and letting people be seen on screen in that large facilitation that she did in China. For me, there's something really important about letting people be seen, giving people an opportunity to play a role, to kind of understand what the game is enough so that they can let loose of that social anxiety. And then just to really be seen for the contribution that they make and having that be tangible and clear.
Jacquie:
Yes. I don't know what it is about the camera and the microphone that just takes it up to that next level. But 100% . I really—something she said when the podcast was over that I thought was just so insightful and worth mentioning, she said, “I see myself in all the models of all the people that I built.” So even though she sort of built a model of her facilitating and the different kinds of people that show up in one of these workshops, she said she sees herself in each one of those. And it's true. So the people that show up in a room that are fear-based, well we have a little bit of fear. People that show up and have a wall in front of them, well we all have walls in front of us. So I think that, that is a really nice thing that she mentioned, to bring in the empathy that facilitators need to have in order to be good facilitators. The art of facilitation is bringing the best out of people. And you can only do that if you can see something in them that helps you to connect with them on that human level. So I think that speaks also to being humble and to recognizing the role that a facilitator takes on when they walk into a room.
Mark:
I love the empathy piece and the way that, that experience just can ripple outward and engage more and more people. Let's do that. Let's give people an opportunity to share in this experience. So if we were to give the listeners a prompt from today's session, what would you like to invite people to do to play along with us?
Jacquie:
If you are a facilitator and you wanted to build a model of, maybe some of the typical people that show up in a workshop or the ones that maybe you're trying to engage. I think that would be fun. I also think that it would be fun to build yourself as a participant and think, how do you show up? When you go to these things, what is your jam? How do you walk in a room? So maybe build that out, because that might help us to have empathy for those that we work for and the ones that we facilitate, because that's really the—facilitators wouldn't be in business if all of this was super easy, and it's not.
Mark:
I love that. So where should people send a picture of that model if they want to play along?
Jacquie:
So if you are listening to this podcast and you’re in our community site and that's where you're hearing it, go ahead and post it right in the chat. And tell us—put the picture in there and tell us a story and any insights that have come out of this podcast that you would like to expand on. Please do so. If you are listening to this podcast on our website or anywhere else that it might show up and you would like to build a model out of LEGO and send it to us and tell us your story, we would love to hear it. And you can send that to hello@strategicplay.com. These stories, as they come in, we find them fascinating. And we will reflect on them in either newsletters or blog posts.
Mark:
So come play with us. We can't wait to play with you again on another episode of the Strategic Play Podcast. Jacquie?
Jacquie:
And I cannot wait to chat and bring you more news from out in the global playground.
Mark:
The play-o-sphere.
Jacquie:
The play-o-sphere. I like that. Okay. Thanks, Mark. Until next time.
Mark:
Until next time.
[ Outtakes ]
Mark:
All those people out there. They're just wondering if you could ever play Touch those LEGO, and just feel the power of play coming off of them and just feel the power play!
Jacquie:
I love it.
Mark:
I'm just fired up. I'm inspired. I'm just feeling it.